Palace Square



Palace Square and also Palace Road came into being a few years after the arrival of the Crystal Palace, presumably the roads were so named due to the close proximity. Originally, only a few large residential houses by 1860, Palace Square gradually expanded with the development of further large, grand residences with high ceilings and sash windows originally for the wealthy, and for landlords and lodging houses. There were three named terraces within Palace Square, Prospect Place (sometimes quoted as Prospect Road or Prospect Row) Woodfield Terrace and St James Terrace.

Maps and Land Ownership
 

1860s

Showing Woodfield Terrace, Prospect Place (sometimes quoted as Prospect Road or Prospect Row) and St James Terrace

Houses which became 47, 49, 51 etc, nor Pleydell Avenue are not yet in existence on this map

The grounds of Oxford House can be seen abutting Palace Square with Nos 45 & 47 The grounds of Oxford House can be seen abutting Palace Square with Nos 45 & 47 1864 The grounds of Oxford House can be seen abutting Palace Square with Nos 45 & 47 1864 The grounds of Oxford House can be seen abutting Palace Square with Nos 45 & 47 1864

Palace Square 1895 map Palace Square fully residential, coming off Palace Road. Pleydell Avenue not yet in existence.

1899 map

Aerial view of Palace Square, showing the rebuilt terraces, Play Ground and Recreation Ground replacing bomb damaged houses and the houses demolished in the 1970s, and Pleydell Avenue. Courtesy of A Phillips

 

 

 

Timeline
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Building of the street
Earliest known residents

Palace Square was in existence by 1860 as a couple of houses are listed in an 1860 street directory.

The 1860 directory, shows a John Ogle, Palace Square.

Mrs Scott, Palace Square 1860

John Ogle, nor Mrs Scott appear on the 1861 Census for Palace Square.

By 1861, there was a full street Census, although no house numbers are included on the 1861 nor 1871 Census returns.

Earliest known residents

Palace Square was in existence by 1860 as a couple of houses are listed in an 1860 street directory.

The 1860 directory, shows a John Ogle, Palace Square.

Mrs Scott, Palace Square 1860

John Ogle, nor Mrs Scott appear on the 1861 Census for Palace Square.

By 1861, there was a full street Census, although no house numbers are included on the 1861 nor 1871 Census returns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Architecture
The original houses varied in style.  It is possible that the oldest in the Square is now numbered Nos 41 and 43.  These houses, although quite plain, have interesting door detail.

Once known as Pleydell Mansions (by 1910s/1920s) – Photo courtesy of J. Heard

Architrave detail above the front door

Example of a 1911 Census, showing Pleydell Mansions was once numbered 43 Palace Square. 41 & 43 are attached houses.

No 23 Palace Square 1906. This house no longer stands. Source Facebook

Believed to be No 28 Palace Square. These houses were still standing in the 1970s, but have since been demolished. Source – Facebook

No 37 Palace Square today with original front door Despite Palace Square receiving WWII bomb damage, two of the houses of the steep-stepped style remain to this day – Nos 35 and No 37 – photo courtesy of J. Heard

No 49 and No 51 Palace Square today

No 49 and 51 Palace Square are of a different style.  No 49 does not appear on a directory until 1896.  These houses are built on the end boundary of the land belonging to Oxford House that once stood on Anerley Hill, which had a large extensive garden running from Anerley Hill to Palace Square, with a fish pond at the Palace Square end.  No 51 Palace Square is now on the corner with Pleydell Avenue.  Pleydell Avenue on that side was not created until c1905.  The houses and gardens of one side of Pleydell Avenue now run the full length from Palace Square to Anerley Hill.

 

Today’s view with Nos 37, 41 and 43 ahead and No 51 on the right-hand corner with Pleydell Avenue

Photo courtesy of J Heard

Corner with Pleydell Avenue – Photo courtesy of J. Heard

Photo courtesy of J.Heard

Top corner with new housing replacing the original bomb damaged houses

View upwards of Palace Square, showing the new housing which replaced the original large, grand houses lost during the WW2 bombing – Photo courtesy of J. Heard

Palace Square – view taken from what is now the playground, with Nos 35, 37, 41 and 41 on the left hand side – photo courtesy of J. Heard

Palace Square – view taken from what is now the playground, with Nos 35, 37, 41 and 41 on the left hand side – Photo courtesy of J. Heard

1867 Street Directory showing occupants of St James’ Terrace and Prospect Place and other houses in Palace Square

 

 

 

 

Significant Street Buildings

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Social History
 

There were three named terraces within Palace Square, Woodfield Terrace, Prospect Place (sometimes quoted as Prospect Road and Prospect Row) and St James Terrace.

1867 & 1869 directories show the following residents:

1 WOODFIELD TERRACE, PALACE SQUARE   

William Henry Humphreys (Bn 1823) lived in Palace Square (also 1871 Census) with his wife Sarah.  His occupation was a Coal Merchant.  They had two Servants, Alice Miskin (aged 18) Housemaid, and Anne Hatfield (aged 30), a Widow, their Cook.

3 WOODFIELD TERRACE, PALACE SQUARE   Rev William Henry Graham M.A (Bn 1823 Ireland D1899 aged 76).  He was the first Vicar of St Paul’s, Hamlet Road, Upper Norwood (1878).  In 1891, he was living at ‘Homeward’ 130 Auckland Road.  He is buried at All Saints, Upper Norwood.

6 WOODFIELD TERRACE, PALACE SQUARE   Mr Alexander Bankier Freeland (Bn 1827 Scotland D1881 Croydon aged 54).  He was a Ship & Insurance Broker and lived at 6 Woodfield Terrace with his wife and four children between 1865 and 1869.  By 1871, they had moved to Fairfield Road, Croydon.

6 WOODFIELD TERRACE, PALACE SQUARE   Mr Charles Case Smith (Bn 1802 Died 11 October 1873, aged 71, at 6 Woodfield Terrace).  Married Jane in 1833 (Bury St Edmunds D1894 Devon).  On the 1871 Census, his occupation is Surgeon Not Practising FWCSE.  He had been a Surgeon for the inmates at Ipswich Goal (1840s).  He is buried at Norwood Cemetery.

8 WOODFIELD TERRACE, PALACE SQUARE   Francis Samuel Coleman (Bn 1832 D 1886) Married Mary Emma in 1857.  He was a successful Builder by trade.  He died at a house called ‘Travanger’, Hamlet Road, aged 53.

9 WOODFIELD TERRACE, PALACE SQUARE  The Misses Jones-Parry.  Sisters Harriet (Bn 1823 D1908) and Louisa (Bn 1831 D1898).  Both were born in Wales.  Their father Thomas Parry Jones Parry (D1845) had been a Captain in the Royal Navy.  He was made a Lieutenant in 1803 and promoted to Commander in 1808.  He subsequently commanded the Musette and Royalist sloops, the former on the Jamaica station.

On the 1871 Census, the Misses Jones-Parry are living in Palace Square on the 1871 Census and on the 1881 Census, it states 28 Palace Square.  By 1891, they had moved to 77 Belvedere Road.

PROSPECT PLACE, PALACE SQUARE

Leading off Palace Road, was Prospect Place.  It has also been quoted as Prospect Road and Prospect Row.

In an 1867 Post Office Directory, there is an H Clifton at No 5 Prospect Place.

1870/1874 street directory has a Henry Crocket Clifton stating 10 Palace Square (2, 4, 6, 8, 10 Palace Square).  He had previously been shown on a street directory, as 5 (1-5) Prospect Road, Upper Norwood.

On the 1871 Census, he is in Palace Square (aged 54) but no house number or house name is listed.

In 1877, antiques, china and paintings of the late Henry Crockett Clifton, were sold at Sothebys Auction House.

Advert 1 January 1867 Cheltenham Chronicle

TO BE LET, Furnished, at Upper Norwood, near the Crystal Palace,

A convenient HOUSE consisting of Three Sitting Rooms and Five or Six Bedrooms, Excellent Water, and Gas laid on, if taken for Three or Four Months.  Rent very moderate.

Apply No 8, Prospect Place, St James’ Terrace,

Upper Norwood, Surrey

 

 

Entrance to Prospect Place. View from Palace Road (1970s just before demolition)

Entrance to Prospect Place. View from Palace Road (1970s just before demolition)

1867 Street Directory showing occupants of St James’ Terrace and Prospect Place and other houses in Palace Square

ST JAMES’ TERRACE, PALACE SQUARE

The Street Directory in 1870 showing occupants of St James’ Terrace and other houses in Palace Square, for house numbers, 1, 2, 3 and 4, are Miss Terrett, Mrs Elliott, Mrs Mary Claisen and Mrs Mary Begby (lodging houses).

Advert Thursday, 29 November 1866 Brighton Gazette

UPPER NORWOOD – A lady residing within five minutes’ walk

of the Crystal Palace, wishes to let a portion of her house

for the winter months, consisting of dining,

and drawing room if wished,

with two or three bedrooms

Address., 3 Prospect Place, Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

See Residents Section of website for the following:  John Bagshaw MP, John Skardon Taylor, Philip Nixon, John Withers, Thomas Voy, Ralph Whistler, the Reverend Abercromble Lockhart Gordon M.A.

RESIDENTS OF KNOWN HOUSE NUMBERS

2 PALACE SQUARE (1896 Directory)

5 PALACE SQUARE (1871 Census) & 1875

WILLIAMS, THOMAS – see Residents Section of website

7 PALACE SQUARE (1881 Census)

ROGERS, CAPTAIN LIEUTENANT DANIEL ALEXANDER – see Residents Section of website

5 & 15 PALACE SQUARE (1884 – 1887)

7 PALACE SQUARE (1891 Census)

ROGERS, CLEMENT – see Residents Section of webaite

15 PALACE SQUARE (1871 Census)

FAIRLIE, SIR AND LADY PERCY ARTHUR CUNNINGHAM (Baronet) – see Residents Section of website

8 PALACE SQUARE (1881 Census)

ABBOTT, EDWIN – see Residents Section of website

Some residents living in Palace Square shown on the 1861 and 1871 Census Records, although no house numbers are stated:

One resident in Palace Square, on the 1871 Census is Widow, Isabella Walsh (aged 70).  She had been married to Rev John Prendergast Walsh (M 1825) (Bn 1798 D1867), who had been an Ordained Protestant Clergyman in Ireland and had held a Curacy in London.  The Bishop of London had refused to allow him (c1847) to continue the same because he had been a military man, which resulted in later financial difficulties.  He had been at Waterloo, serving in the 95thRegiment as a Second Lieutenant where he lost a leg.  By 1881, Widow Isabella had moved from Palace Square to 1 Maberley Road.  During their marriage, they had had ten children; at least three died in infancy and three others died in their early adulthood.  Their middle son was Colonel Thomas Prendergast Boles Walsh who served in India.

Another family on the 1871 Census, is Colonel Henry Warter Meredith (aged 45 Bn 1825 D1901) with his wife Sophia (M1855) (Sophia (Bn 1825 Wales D1909 Oaklawn, Hamlet Road, was a daughter of Thomas Parry Jones Parry and a sister of the Misses Jones Parry).  In the 1867 street directory, his address is Stanford Lodge, Palace Square.  He was with Her Majesty’s 41st Welsh Regiment.  He later became a Magistrate and Justice of the Peace.

WHISTLER, RALPH (1861 Census)

Ralph Whistler (Bn 1828 D1864), lived in Palace Square with his wife Alice (Bn 1844).  They married on 2 March 1860, when she was aged 16.  They were both born in London.  Ralph was a Tea Broker.  They had a son, Ralph (Bn 1861 Norwood).  They had one Servant, Nurse Eliza Clayton (aged 30, from Suffolk).  Ralph (Senior) died in 1864 in Shanghai, China.  Alice remarried in February 1867 and is buried in Norwood Cemetery (D1873 aged 30).

20 PALACE SQUARE (1881 Census)

OWEN, MD FRCS, LSA HARVEY K

Harvey K Owen, MD FRCS, LSA (Bn 1816), a Retired Medical Practitioner, lived at 20 Palace Square (1881 Census).  He had two Servants, Elizabeth Brimcomb, aged 56, a Domestic Cook and Annie Hutt, aged 18, a General Servant.  He died 7 May 1886, aged 70, at Belvedere Road.

22 PALACE SQUARE (‘ST KATHERINES’) (1881 & 1891 Census)

JAMES, WALTERS

On the 1881, is Walter James (Bn 1834 Walworth D1915 aged 81), with his wife, Elizabeth (née Cash) (Bn 1836 D1891 aged 61) M 1857, St Matthews Church, Brixton.  His occupation is a Merchants Clerk (1857) and 1891 Commission Merchant Shipping Insurance Agent Director of Public Company.  In a published letter in 1892, regarding the late Thomas L Bristowe, MP, he states his address as St Katherine’s, 22 Palace Square.

Also, living with them, is Elizabeth’s father, John Cash (Bn 1798).  On all the Census returns (from 1851 to 1881 aged 83), his occupation is ‘Yeoman Warder Tower of London’.

Walter and Elizabeth are both buried at Norwood Cemetery.

22 PALACE SQUARE

CISSIE MAY SOCHON (1911)

Norwood News Friday 19 October 1917

CISSIE SOCHON, 22 Palace Square, Upper Norwood, was also summoned in respect of lighting and pleaded not guilty.  PC C Spooner, said that on the night of the 1 October, at 9.45pm, he saw an incandescent gas light burning in the front room on the ground floor.  There was a light-coloured blind drawn at the front window of the bay, but the dark curtains at the side windows of the bay were not drawn.  The light shone across the road for a distance of 25 yards.  When he asked her who was responsible for the light, she replied, “I don’t know,” but she admitted having lit the gas.  Whilst they were talking, the blinds were drawn, and no light was then shining outside, and she said that she should call her two friends as witness.  The witnesses were not present, and the clerk reminded her that she had had the opportunity to call them.  Fined 20s., or 13 days. 

Defendant (laughing) said that her husband was in the Army and she could not possibly pay.  The Chairman: You will be allowed a week in which to pay.

23 PALACE SQUARE (1881 Census)

DOWTON MILLS, JAMES

Born on 27 March 1825, in Shoreditch, James Dowton Mills, was a Designer and Engraver of Bank Notes for the Bank of England.

In 1839, he was Granted the Freedom of the City, Apprentice to his Father.  His father George (Bn 1793 M Sarah 1818, Aldersgate) was an Engraver, originally a Carpenter.

James Dowton Mills was married to Julia (Bn 1831 Southampton D1906) in 1854 and an ‘Engraver’ aged 29 and she was a 23 year old Widow.  In 1871, they lived in Anerley Grove, where his occupation is ‘Engraving Office Bank of England’.  In 1881, at 23 Palace Square.  By 1901, they have moved to Bloomsbury and in 1911 (aged 87) he is living in Biddulph Mansions, Maida Vale (Retired Engraver).

23 PALACE SQUARE (1881 Census)

SMITH, EDWIN DALTON

On the 1881 Census, resident at No 23 Palace Square, was Edwin Dalton Smith (Bn 1800 Chelsea D1883) (Widower).  He was a Miniature Painter, Portrait Painter, Artist, Engraver, Botanical Illustrator and Photographer.  His daughter, Edwina (Bn 1843 Chelsea D1917) (a Teacher of Drawing), aged 38, resided with him.  His father was the engraver/painter, Anker Smith (Bn 1759 D1819).  Fine botanical illustrated plates were drawn by Edwin Dalton Smith and he was associated with the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew.

Most of his works were exhibited between 1816 -1847 at the Royal Academy and the Suffolk Street Galleries.  He worked on Robert Sweet’s (Bn 1783 D 1835) ‘Flower Garden’.  Robert Sweet was an English Botanist, Horticulturist and Ornithologist. . He also produced illustrations for Benjamin Maund’s ‘Botanic Garden’.

His portraits are still popular at auctions and some of his paintings are displayed at the National Portrait Gallery.

 

This was No 23 Palace Square, but no longer stands as it was destroyed by bomb damage during WW2.  One resident (1880) was Edwin Dalton Smith (Miniature Portrait Painter – see separate).  This photo states 1906, and looking at the 1901 and 1911 Census returns, the residents were:-

1901 Census

William Gostick, aged 54 (he was also at this address on the 1891 (a Waiter), 1901 and 1911 Census returns).  In 1881, he was at 4 St John’s Villas, Woodland Road, Upper Norwood) (Bn 1847 Pavenham, Beds), a Caterer in a Coffee House, his wife Emily, aged 60 (Bn 1841 Chalvey, Bucks), daughters Emily, aged 25 (Bn Norwood) and Constance, who worked for Wholesale Milliners, aged 21 (Bn Norwood).  In 1876, they lived in Norwood New Town and had a daughter, Mabel Jane, who sadly died in 1879.

Also, John Smith, aged 28 (Bn Grantham, Lincs), a Grocer’s Assistant, his wife, Kate, aged 31 (Bn Greenwich) and son Harold Percy (Bn April 1900 Norwood).  When Harold was aged 17 (in January 1918), he joined the Royal Air Force (Service No 260501).

1911 Census

William Gostick aged 64 (Bn Pavenham, Beds), now states a Retired Commission Agent (D1932), his wife, Emily, daughter Emily, aged 35, Servant Mabel Maude Nightingale, aged 41 (Bn Wellington Barracks).

Also, Ernest James Gladden, aged 39 (Bn Lower Norwood), a Beer Cellarman/Restaurant and his wife, Susan, aged 32 (Perth, UK)

24 PALACE SQUARE (1911 Census)

WHITE, JOHN JESSE

In 1911, John Jesse White (Bn 10 March 1833 D December 1916, aged 83) , his wife Mathilde (Bn 1844) lived at 24 Palace Square, with their daughter, Edith (Bn 1883) and an 83 year old Boarder, John Scobell (a Retired Journalist) (Widower).

John Jesse and his daughter Edith, were Musicians.

John Jesse White, was a Violinist, Organist and Composer, born in Bermondsey. He was the eldest of seven children, his father John White, was a Greengrocer, and his mother, Mary Ann, later a Music Seller, who moved his family to a poor part of Birmingham (Tonk Street, now Hill Street) in about 1835.  He was a pupil of James Stimpson, for organ and theory, following which he became Musical Director at the Theatre Royal, Birmingham at the young age of twenty.  He later moved to Paris for further studies under Jaques Halevy.  He was first violin at the Theatre Lyrique, Paris.

He spent many years in Chile, Peru, La Plata and South America generally, as a Musical Director, Composer and Organist.

John Jesse would have probably been totally forgotten if it were not for an incident on 8 December 1863, when he had played the violin in the early Masses in the Church of the Company of Jesus at Lo Campania, Santiago, Chile.  It was a day of the Great Festival. He left early owing to a prior engagement, which was fortunate as the church caught fire and between 2,500 and 3,000 persons were burned to death.

In 1881 he was back in Europe again.  He was for a time a member of the Meiningen Orchestra under Hans von Bulow and played in the production of Parsival in 1882.  While in Germany he met and married his wife Matilde who was from Bavaria.  They had six children, of which only three survived him.

Soon after this he returned to England, but the change of climate caused a long and dangerous illness.  He gave recitals and lectures in 1885 and the next year was appointed Music Director of the Southport Winter Gardens. He remained there for nine years and some of his compositions were introduced.  In 1895 he moved to Palace Square, remaining there until his death in 1916 from a freak accident.

An example newspaper article from November 1896:

 

November 1896

OUR MUSICAL ALBUM

CONTAINS SONGS by Lindsay Lennox, Fredk H Cowen,

AJ Carpenter, Dr C Villiers Stanford, A Plumpton,

JE Barkworth, M.A., Mis.Bac.Oxon, Theo Bonbeur, &c. 

Dance Music by J Warwick Moore and John Jesse White. 

 

Romance for Violin and Piano by Dr C Hubert H Parry, Nursery Rhymes.  Illustrated Interviews with Mr Fredk, Dawson,

Miss Jessie Hotine, Mrs Edward Lloyd

and Miss Liza Lehmann, &c., &c.

 

A Marvellous Sixpennyworth

Published by and may be obtained of ALFRED GODBALL, Musical Instrument Warehouse, Cornhill, Ipswich.

 

 

Unfortunately, in December 1916, John Jesse was the victim of a fatal accident, reported in newspapers at the time.

January 1917

The driver of a coal van which ran over John Jesse White, an aged professor of music, stated at the inquest at Wandsworth, that his horse became nervous after the roof of its stable was blown off during a Zeppelin raid.

28 PALACE ROAD

Believed to be No 28 Palace Square. These houses were still standing in the 1970s, but have since been demolished.

As the houses are not numbered on the 1861 or 1871, definite correct information cannot be transcribed.  If this is No 28, previous known occupiers have been:

1881 Census

Miss Harriet GJ Parry (aged 58) (Bn 1823 D1908) was the Head of Household on the 1881 Census, who was born in Carnarvon, Wales.  Her income was from an Annuitant (a fixed amount of money paid to someone every year.  Yields are reduced for female policyholders as they are expected to live longer than male annuitants).  By 1891 to1908, she was living at 77 Belvedere Road.  Her mother, Margaret, a Widow in 1851, was a Land Proprietor, farming 40 acres and employing four Agricultural Labourers (Denbighshire).  Her brother in law had been a Captain in the Madras Fusiliers (1861 Census Pembrokeshire).

Harriet was living in Palace Square with her sister Louisa, in 1871.  She was the Head of Household, employing a Parlour Maid, Ladies Maid and a Cook.

1891 Census

No occupation at the time of the Census (Sunday, 5 April 1891).

1901 Census

In 1901, three families occupied No 28 Palace Square.

Mr Arthur Martin (aged 43, from Hastings) and his wife Alice (aged 34 from Thornton Heath), a Dressmaker.  Mr Martin was a Domestic Coachman.  In 1911, he was a Gardener at the Crystal Palace.  By 1911, they were living at No 47 Palace Square, with their seven year old son, Harry John and by 1916 they all emigrated to Canada.

Also living at No 28, was 30 year old Widow, Mrs Jane Holmes (Bn 1871 from Carshalton), her seven year old son, Albert, five year old William, and three year old Nellie.

The third family, were Mr Charles Bridger (aged 32), a Stationer’s Assistant from Tunbridge Wells, his wife, Rhoda (aged 35), from Norwood and their four sons (Aged 9, 6, 4 and 2) and a daughter (aged 8) all born in Norwood.  In 1891, they had been living at 15 Barnfield Road (now Bristow Road) and in 1911, they had moved to ‘The Woodlands’, Whiteley Road.

1911 Census

Widow Mrs Eliza Tonkin (aged 71 Bn Cornwall D 2 June 1916) lived at 28 Palace Square with her married daughters Martha (aged 36) Miranda (aged 44) and husband Richard Jenkin (aged 43 from Cornwall) a Grocer’s Manager.  It is stated as a 10 roomed house.  In 1901, they were living at 55 Palace Square, where Eliza’s husband, James Bennett Tonkin, is aged 58 (from Cornwall) and a London City Missionary (Bn 1843 D 21 March 1902 55 Palace Square).

Also at 28, is Boarder, Miss Alice Bradley (aged 51).

In 1927, Miranda (Bn 1867 D 1929) and Richard, are living at 23 Becondale Road.

32 PALACE SQUARE (1871 & 1881 Census) also 7 Woodfield Terrace – 1869

YANIEWICZ, FELIX

Felix Yaniewicz lived at 32 Palace Square (Bn 1805 Liverpool D10 April 1886 at Palace Square) and his sister, Felicia (aged 76).  He was a Retired Dentist of the Royal College of Surgeons, Edinburgh.  He constructed an apparatus to deliver ether (1847) anaesthesia for dentistry.  His father was a famous Composer and Violinist, of the same name, in exile from Poland, born in Lithuania in 1762.

Chester Chronicle – Friday, 13 October 1837

TEETH

MR F YANIEWICZ, Dentist, Member of the Royal College of Surgeons, Edinburgh, grateful for the encouragement he has received from the inhabitants of Chester and its vicinity, begs to announce that in consequence e of the increase of his practice, he now attends EVERY SATURDAY, at his apartments at Mrs Williams, perfumer, 112 Northgate Street, where he may be consulted on the Diseases of the Teeth and Gums and the means necessary for their prevention and cure.

Mr Y, having paid much attention to the rectifying of the irregularities of the Teeth of Children and Young Persons, is able to adopt a speedy and efficacious method of treatment, which does not cause the pain and irritation produced by the usual methods.

During the twelve years Mr Yaniewicz has been in practice, he has carefully inspected the varieties of Artificial Teeth, made by the most celebrated Dentists both in this Country and the Continent, he can therefore confidently pledge himself, that any Teeth fitted in by him, shall be equal both in material and workmanship to those of the most scientific practitioners, and at considerably less charge.

29 PALACE SQUARE

REED, ROBERT HOPKE

Robert Hopke Reed lived at various addresses in Upper Norwood, including 46 Colby Road, (1881), 40 Whiteley Road (1901) and 2 St Julian’s Farm Road in West Norwood (1911).  In a street directory in 1870, he was living in Palace Road, by 1877 at 29 Palace Square and 1878 at 27 Palace Square. (Bn 1831 Somerset Bath D1914 aged 84 at Clifford Lodge, Crown Hill/Norwood Cemetery).  He was a Musician/Professor of Music, as was his father Thomas.  He married his second wife, Louise Adelaide Kemp, in 1871 (Bn 1839 D1874).  His first wife was Annie Louisa (Bn 1833 1870 Palace Road/Norwood Cemetery) ( M1856) and they lived in Jasmine Grove.

35 PALACE SQUARE (‘CLIFTON VILLA’)

No 35 Palace Square today, still with the original front door

1881 Census

Miss Anna M Boyle (aged 52 Bn 1829).  She lived on Independent Means and was Deaf and Dumb.  She lived with her two sisters, Grace (aged 50) and Elizabeth (aged 35).  They all lived on Independent Means and were born in Dublin.  They had a 29 year old General Domestic Servant, Mary A Villey (Bn Lambeth).  In 1881, Grace Boyle was on the published List of Rate Payers, regarding ‘Croydon Not a Borough’ Who Have Consented to Sign the Petition Against the Incorporation of Croydon.

1891 Census

‘Family Away on 5 April 1891’.

1901 Census

At No 35 Palace Square, were two families.

Mr Solomon Newman (aged 73, Bn 1828 Westerham  D1910 aged 82), his wife Sarah (aged 69, born in Yalding, Kent), with their daughter Marcia (aged 33) and son George (aged 11), both also born in Yalding, Kent.  In 1911 George was a Patient at the London Fever Hospital, Islington.  Mr Solomon Newman, was Living on Own Means.

The other family was Mr Charles A Barnet (aged 26 Bn Brighton) and his wife, Amelia E (aged 26 Bn Paddington) and son William A (aged 3 Bn Harlesden – also see War Heroes).  Mr Barnett’s occupation was a Skating Rink Superintendent.

1911 Census

In 1911, living at 35 Palace Square were Mr George Byford (aged 42), a ‘Painter at the Palace’.  Living with him, was Annie Elizabeth Powell (aged 43) ‘Housekeeper to My Byford’, her sons, James (aged 18) who worked for a Builder, Ernest (aged 16) who worked for a Fish Monger, Arthur (aged 12) School Boy and daughter, Elsie (aged 10) School Girl.  They also had a Care Child, Albert Hales (aged 6) (Bn South Norwood) School Boy.  They had a Visitor on the Census, Josef Powell (aged 24) (Bn Upper Norwood) (single), that was labelled as Feeble Minded.

They have stated the house being named Clifton Villa and living in 4 rooms.

No 37 Palace Square

In 1911, living at 35 Palace Square were Mr George Byford (aged 42), a ‘Painter at the Palace’.  Living with him, was Annie Elizabeth Powell (aged 43) ‘Housekeeper to My Byford’, her sons, James (aged 18) who worked for a Builder, Ernest (aged 16) who worked for a Fish Monger, Arthur (aged 12) School Boy and daughter, Elsie (aged 10) School Girl.  They also had a Care Child, Albert Hales (aged 6) (Bn South Norwood) School Boy.  They had a Visitor on the Census, Josef Powell (aged 24) (Bn Upper Norwood) (single), that was labelled as Feeble Minded.

They have stated the house being named Clifton Villa and living in 4 rooms 

1881 Census

‘No occupation at the time of the Census (Sunday, 3 April 1881)’.

1891 Census

In 1891, there were three families in occupation at No 37 Palace Square, including Mrs Elizabeth Stevens, Widow, aged 50 from Gloucestershire.  She Let the Apartments/Lodgings and had a 10 year old daughter, Lily.  Also, living there was Widower, Henry J Elcoux (aged 63 from Worcestershire), who was a Cab Proprietor.  They had a 16 year old General Domestic Servant, Henrietta Thorley (Bn London).

Mr F Sandry (aged 24), a Doctor Not in Practice/Surgery, also lived there with his wife Mrs G Sandry (aged 30), she and their eldest son, Humberto (aged 7), were born in California.  There are also two more sons, Leopoldo and Luis (aged 6 and 4) and a 5 year old daughter, Virginia.  They employed a Domestic Cook, L Marteny (aged 46 Widow), all of whom were born in Mexico.

1901 Census

John P Hawkins (aged 58 Bn 1843 D 1922), lived at No 37, with his wife Emily (aged 56 Bn 1844 D1918) and daughter, Dorothy, aged 19 (Bn 1882 Karachi, India, D1976).  Mr Hawkins worked for the Civil Service – Indian Government (Retired).

1911 Census (9 rooms)

Mr John Pattison Little (aged 57 Bn Carlisle), his wife Agnes (aged 47 Bn Scotland).  Their children are Winifred Enid (aged 20), a Dressmaker, Josephine (aged 16), Mona (aged 15) and Apprentice Dressmaker and Doris (aged 12).  All born in Carlisle.  The family occupy nine rooms.  They lived there from at least 1909 to 1913.  He was a Manager of Works/Manufacturing Chemists.

42 PALACE SQUARE (1911 Census)

COOKE, CYRIL WALTER

On the 1911 Census at 42 Palace Square, lived Cyril Walter Cooke, aged 56 (Bn 1855), his wife Alice Maud (Bn 1880 Stepney), their 5 year old son, Arthur and Alice’s Grandmother (Bn 1833).  It states on the Census that Cyril is a Colonial Manager at the Crystal Palace.  His father had been the Rev John Cooke (Bn 1814 D1882).

47 PALACE SQUARE (1871 Census)

HAY, MAJOR WILLIAM EDMUND

Another resident on the 1871 Census (likely No 47 Palace Square), was Major William E Hay (Widow) (Bn 1805, Bath, Somersetshire).  He was living with his sister, Mrs Anne Dunlop (Bn 1809 Tiverton, Devon).  He died at 5 Church Road in 1879, but his sister was still living at 47 Palace Square (a Widow aged 72) in 1881, whose income was an Annuity.  They had a Housekeeper, Mrs Elizabeth Burden, aged 51, from Bermondsey, Lady’s Maid Miss Margaret Grant, aged 20, from Scotland, a Cook, Miss Patricia Campbell, aged22, from Scotland and a Housemaid, Miss Caroline Prince, aged 14, from Stantonbury, Buckinghamshire.

In 1879, Major Hay had a letter published in the Eastern Daily Press, recommending Holman’s Liver Pads, for easement of liver complaints.

FROM MAJOR W.E. HAY

A LONG RESIDENT IN INDIA

London, October 8, 1877

SIR – Having now tried the Holman’s Pad for six weeks, I am justified, I think, in conveying to you my approbation of it; and, considering that I had for years suffered from complaints caused by a long residence in the East, and had been told by medical men that they could do little for me unless they had the power to give me a new liver, I was not at first sanguine.  I persevered, and it has improved my health wonderfully, and has almost completely restored the peristaltic action of the bowels which had been injured by constant use of strong medicines. 

I can recommend the Pad for cure of torpid liver, dyspepsia, constipation, the after-effects of intermittent fever and the irregularities of the heart consequent of rheumatic fever.

I might say a good deal more is praise of both the Pad and Plasister, both of which I have used without any unpleasant sensation and with good effect.  Thus having expressed my opinion in my own case, as a recommendation to the public, I may add how grateful I feel to the individual who recommended it to me, and to the inventor, who has, under Providence, brought such an innocuous and yet simple remedy to the relief of innumerable sufferers.  In the East Indies I should be glad to hear that the Holman’s Pad had replaced the use of mercury, in torpor of liver and indigestion especially.

Believe me, yours faithfully

(Signed) W.E. HAY (Major, retired)

Colman’s Liver Pad advert

47 PALACE SQUARE (1881 Census)

49 Palace Square

Living at No 47 was Mrs Anne Dunlop, a 72 year old Widow (in receipt of an Annuitant), from Tiverton, Devon (Bn 1809 D1884).  She is also on the Census in Palace Square for 1871, with her 22 year old son, Charles (Bn 1849 Scotland D1916 aged 66, a Ceylon Civil Servant).  She has a Domestic Cook, Miss Margaret Gray, aged 60, from Bourton, and Housemaid Miss Ellen Wood, aged 19, from Isle of Stroma, Scotland.  She is living at the same residence as her brother, Major William E Hay.

47 PALACE SQUARE (1891 Census)

Mrs Clara Bailey, Widow aged 50 (Bn 1841 Angmering, Sussex D1897  47 Palace Square), Living on Own Means, with her daughter Clara Louise (aged 37, Bn 1856 Australia D1949), Governess.  They also had a Lodger, Mr Donald Grout (aged 55, Bn India), who was a Manufacturer in Hosiery.  There was also a General Domestic Servant, Miss Caroline Barnes, aged 18 from Selsey, Sussex.

No 49 Palace Square, is not mentioned on the Census returns until 1911, but appears on a Street Directory for 1896.

The house numbers jumps from No 47 to No 55, and in 1911 it jumps from No 47, 49, 55.

At No 49 in 1911, is Mr Horace Arthur Swinerd (Bn 1865 Old Kent Road D1941) and his wife Nicolina (Bn 1862 Brighton D1941).  They married at All Saints, West Dulwich, on 30 December 1899, when he was living at 27 Waldegrave Road, and she was living at 7 Turney Road.  By 1909, they are living at 49 Palace Square.  In 1915, they are living at No 53 Palace Square.  Mr Swinerd is an Engineer’s Draughtsman for Merchants and Engineers.  His father Edward, had been an Engine Driver (Bn 1836 in Faversham D1919 32 Hamlet Road) (1901/1911, Edward lived at ‘Ashlawn’ 32 Hamlet Road).  Horace and Nicolina are both Totally Deaf and Dumb.  By 1939, they have moved to Brighton, when he is now retired.  Sadly, they both died in 1941.

47 PALACE SQUARE (1901 Census)

Not in Occupation’ (Sunday 31 March/Monday 1 April 1901)

47 PALACE SQUARE (1911 Census)

In 1911, there was Mr Arthur Martin (aged 53, from Hastings) and his wife Alice (aged 44 from Thornton Heath), a Dressmaker, and their seven year old son, Harry John.  Mr Martin was a Gardener at the Crystal Palace.  In 1901, they had been living at No 28 Palace Square when he was a Domestic Coachman.  By 1916, they had all emigrated to Canada.

The Martin Family are living in one room at 47 Palace Square and appear to be the only family living there at the time of the 1911 Census.

No 49 Palace Square, is not mentioned on the Census returns until 1911, but appears on a Street Directory for 1896.

The house numbers jumps from No 47 to No 55, and in 1911 it jumps from No 47, 49, 55.

At No 49 in 1911, is Mr Horace Arthur Swinerd (Bn 1865 Old Kent Road D1941) and his wife Nicolina (Bn 1862 Brighton D1941).  They married at All Saints, West Dulwich, on 30 December 1899, when he was living at 27 Waldegrave Road, and she was living at 7 Turney Road.  By 1909, they are living at 49 Palace Square.  In 1915, they are living at No 53 Palace Square.  Mr Swinerd is an Engineer’s Draughtsman for Merchants and Engineers.  His father Edward, had been an Engine Driver (Bn 1836 in Faversham D1919 32 Hamlet Road) (1901/1911, Edward lived at ‘Ashlawn’ 32 Hamlet Road).  Horace and Nicolina are both Totally Deaf and Dumb.  By 1939, they have moved to Brighton, when he is now retired.  Sadly, they both died in 1941.

NO 51 PALACE SQUARE (1915)

51 Palace Square

Unfortunately, 51 does not appear on any Census as the numbers jump from No 49 to No 55, which was on the other corner.  It does appear on a street directory for 1915, which shows a Mr Sidney Herbert Gillett at 51A Palace Square.  Adjacent to 51, the directory states “And here is Pleydell Avenue”.

GILLETT, SYDNEY HERBERT

In 1911, Sydney Herbert Gillett (Bn 18 January 1876 D1968 aged 93 Brighton), his wife Alice Julia (Bn 8 August 1876 Twickenham D1962 Brighton) and their three children Elecia Rosa (Bn 1901 D1989), Else Irene (Bn 1903 D1993) and Charles Herbert (Bn 1908 D1963) were living at No 16, Palace Road.  Sydney Herbert Gillett is a House Decorator.

His wife, Alice Julia, was born in Twickenham.  Her father had been a Carpenter and by 1881, the family had moved to 3 Alfred Terrace, Barnfield Road (now Bristow Road), Gipsy Hill.  Sydney and Alice were married at Christ Church, Gipsy Hill in April 1900, by the Rev Joynt and they first moved to 7 Sainsbury Road, Gipsy Hill.

In 1901 and 1903, they were living at 7 Sainsbury Road, off Gipsy Hill, and in 1909 and 1910 at 11 Sainsbury Road (road next to Gipsy Hill Station).  One of their daughters, Else, married William Money (Bn 1895 D1969) at Christ Church, Gipsy Hill in 1924.  He was a Piano Tuner and Repairer, living at 84 Gipsy Hill and his father was a Picture Frame Maker.  Their son Charles Herbert (Bn 11 July 1908) married Ivy Symes in 1927, and was later a Painter and Paper Hanger (1939 Census) and moved to Brighton, Sussex.  Charles died in Worthing in 1963, aged just 56.

In 1915, the Gilletts were living at 51 Palace Square.  From at least 1921 to 1939, Alice and Sydney lived at 90 Woodland Road.

55 PALACE SQUARE

LYSTER, CAPTAIN WILLIAM HENRY (1881Census)

William Henry Lyster was Captain Bombay Corps AL, a Colonel in the Indian Army.  He was born in 1847 Calcutta, India D 19 January 1923, aged 76.

In 1871, a newspaper article stated 49th Foot – Lieutenant William H Lyster to be permitted to receive the value of an Ensigncy on transfer to the Indian Staff Corps.

In 1896, another newspaper article stated Lieutenant Colonel William H Lyster, Indian Staff Corps, was selected for promotion to a Brevet Colonelcy.

In 1881, he resided, aged 34, at 55 Palace Square with his wife, Alice, aged 25 (Bn 1856 Italy D1932), son, Cecil, aged 3 (Bn 1 December 1877 Dealudpore, East Indies D1961).  In 1911, Cecil was a Captain in the Indian Army and in 1939 he was a Retired Lt/Col.  William and Alice also had a daughter, Maude, aged 1 year (Bn 1880 Upper Norwood D1968).  Also living with them was Alice’s mother, Frances (Widow), aged 56, living on Dividends (Bn 1824 Richmond, Yorkshire D1923).  They have two Servants, Jane Munton, aged 27 (Bn 1854 Kings Cross) a General Servant, and Jane Hall, aged 26 (Bn 1855 Chobham, Surrey) a Domestic Nurse.

 

In 1891, just his mother-in-law, Frances, aged 66, is living in Palace Square at No 44, Living on Own Means.

Captain William Henry Lyster retired in December 1904.

 

 

 

SOCIAL HISTORY

An advert in the Croydon Chronicle on Saturday, 2 March 1867, was for an auction for the furniture at a house named South Hill Villa, Palace Square, to be held on Wednesday, 6 March 1867 at one o’clock.

The nearly new clean HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE, an invalid chair and effects, comprising mahogany, Arabian and iron bedsteads, good feather beds, mattresses and bedding, drawers, dressing tables and glasses, marble top and Japanned washstands, with fittings; and usual bed appurtenances, tapestry and Kidderminster carpets, hearth rugs, walnut wood chairs, couches and easy chairs, loo, dining and occasional tables, chimney glass, mahogany chairs, window curtains, fenders and fire irons, hanging press, press bedstead, floor cloth, kitchen furniture and utensils, china and glass, and various other effects.

 

May be viewed on the day preceding and morning of sale, and catalogues had at the Inns at Sydenham, Penge, Lower and South Norwood; on the Premises and at the Auctioneer’s Office, Upper Norwood.

 

The Evening Telegraph

Friday, November 5, 1897

LOVE’S DISPUTES AND TRANSFERS

A JILTED SERVANT AND HER RIVAL

At Penge Police Court on Tuesday, Bella Beatty and Kate Crawley, servants, of Woodland Road, Upper Norwood, were charged with assaulting Fanny Mannering, a general servant of Palace Square, Anerley.

Complainant said that on Sunday night, Oct. 24, she was returning to her situation with her young man.  The two defendants, who were formerly her friends, “scandalised” her, and then attacked her.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr Judd) – What was the origination of this case – was it a man? (Laughter)

Complainant – It arose through my young man. (Laughter)

The CHAIRMAN – It was said that there was always a woman in a case, but it is frequently a man. (Laughter)

Edward Facey, a painter, said he was seeing complainant home, when “Miss Bella Beatty” used bad language.  The young woman struck complainant and himself.  He used to keep company with “Miss Bella Beatty.” (Laughter)

The CHAIRMAN – Was it very recently you kept company with her?

Witness – About six months ago.  I left her one Sunday and went out with Miss Mannering on the following Sunday. (Laughter).  Through her temper we parted. (Renewed laughter)

The defendant Beatty – He acted very sly towards me, and I am sure I did not deserve it. (Laughter).  I admit I shook the girl.

The CHAIRMAN (to Crawley) – The young man has not been keeping company with you, I suppose?

Crawley – Oh dear, no; he is only my cousin. (Laughter)

The CHAIRMAN – Blood was not thicker than water in your case, then. (Laughter) It would never do to allow every girl to attack another girl who takes her place.

Beatty – The young woman knew I had kept company with Facey, and behind my back she walked out with him.  It was very cruel of her. (Laughter)  That’s the reason I shook her.

Inspector SMITH said this was one of the many disputes between young men and women which arose at Westow Hill on Sunday nights.  It was a place of meeting for the settlement of these love disputes. (Laughter)

The CHAIRMAN – It has been from early days.

Mr TOLHURST – And for making transfers, I suppose. (Laughter)

Inspector SMITH – That is so, sir.

A nominal fine was imposed in each case.

Norwood News, Friday, 3 May 1929

LANDLADY’S TROUBLES

ALLEGED SMOKE NUISANCE AT PALACE SQUARE

 At the Penge Court, on Tuesday, Mrs E M Penn, Glenthorne, Shephall, Stevenage, Herts, was summoned by the Penge Council for permitting a smoke nuisance at 26 PALACE SQUARE.

Defendant did not appear.

Mr W G Weller, solicitor, represented the sanitary authority.

Mr Weller said the smoke nuisance arose from some defect in the chimney.  The sanitary inspector had exhausted every effort to put the matter right.  He did not expect defendant to appear, as she had written to say the tenant was in receipt of an order to get the work done as reasonably as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

SMOKE IN THE ROOM

 

Mr R T Pearce, chief sanitary inspector, spoke of visits to the premises in December last.  Smoke from the stove of the basement front room was not effectually carried up the chimney, and the majority of it entered the room.

 

The trouble was probably due to some obstruction in the chimney.  Statutory notices were served in February.  The smoke came into a room where three or four people were living.

 

The Bench made an order for the abatement of the nuisance in 21 days.

 

Mr Weller asked for professional costs.  The Council (he said) had exhausted every means of remedying the defect without coming into Court.

 

He was allowed two guineas professional costs and Court costs.

 

 

 

Norwood News August 31, 1962

NIGHT CHIMES – 5 ICE CREAM MEN FINED

 

FIVE ice cream salesmen were fined a total of £18 at Penge Court on Tuesday, for sounding the chimes on their vans after 7pm.

This is an offence under the Noise Abatement Act 1961.

Brian Smith, driver salesman, admitted offences in Royston Road, Hawthorn Grove and Howard Grove, but it was said in his defence that he had used his chimes as a warning device to children in the roadway.  He was fined a total of £6.

William Julius Valenti admitted sounding musical notes after 7pm in Palace Square and Anerley Grove, and stated that he was warning adults and children at a dangerous corner.

 

Norwood News  Saturday, 14 April 1877

WANTED – a respectable General Servant –

Apply before two at 59 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Norwood News  Saturday, 31 May 1879

MR E.D.SMITH, Miniature Painter, invites those interested in China Painting, to visit his Studio, 23 Palace Square, Upper Norwood, where examples may be seen in Painting upon China, Ivory, Marble or Paper. 

Instructions given in Miniature Painting by himself or Miss Smith. 

Photographs coloured.

 

 

 

 

 

Norwood News  May 8, 1880

UPPER NORWOOD – Capital Freehold Investments

MR.T.R. MEAKIN – will SELL, at the Mart, on Wednesday, May 19, at 2,

TWO PAIRS, of excellent Freehold RESIDENCES, Nos 20,22, 25,27 Palace Square,

close to the Crystal Palace, let to old standing tenants at £45 & £40 per annum;

together £170 per annum

 

 

Norwood News  Saturday, 5 February 1881

UNFURNISHED APARTMENTS – Dining room Floor and extra room; terms 10s weekly.  Attendance if required.

– 40 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Norwood News  Saturday, 15 March 1884

WANTED Daily or Morning Engagement to teach Young Children.; English, German, French and Music – Josey, 36 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Norwood News  Saturday 3 August 1889

HIGH CLASS

PREPARATORY SCHOOL FOR BOYS

7, PALACE SQUARE

Upper Norwood, S.E.,

CONDUCTDED BY

MR CLEMENT ROGERS

 

The Course of Study in this School comprises a careful practical grounding for Professional and Commercial Life, and for the various Local Examinations now in operation.

 

 

Norwood News  18 June 1892 

Apartments,  Furnished; excellent cooking and attendance; bath; near Crystal Palace;

moderate terms inclusive.  Proprietress, 16 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Norwood News  November 19, 1892

PIANOFORTE – Miss Hettie Guttmann has vacancies for a few additional pupils; thorough instructions given; highest references – 1 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

 

 

 

East Anglian Daily Times Thursday, 24 August 1893

GENERAL Servant, about 20, who can cook, required for a small family; good wages; housemaid kept – Miss Cobbe, – 6 Palace Square, Upper Norwood, London S.E.

 

 

Norwood News  Saturday, 3 October 1894

PALACE SQUARE, UPPER NORWOOD – Lady and Gentleman, without family,

would be glad to receive a Gentleman as Partial Boarder;

he will receive every attention and find a comfortable home;

terms 25s per week; bath (hot and cold);

 one gentleman only received

Address B.A.; care of Mr Day, Stationer, 67 Anerley Road, S.E

 

 

Norwood News  Saturday, 20 August 1892

EDUCATIONAL

DAILY GOVERNESS

A Lady of experience, desires Engagement as above to Young Children; subjects – English, French, Music, Latin and Drawing.  Distance not objected to

Address H.; 5 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Advert 27 June 1899 Essex Herald

GIRL, strong and active, about 17, to assist mistress with ordinary household work.

No cooking or children.  Wages £12.  Mrs Mumford,

40 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Advert 7 September 1901 Croydon Chronicle and East Surrey Advertiser

HALF Floor, to Let, large rooms, very convenient; entire use of garden; pleasantly situated

42 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Advert 11 July 1903 Norwood News

DRESSMAKERS & MILLINERS

Dressmaking, good fit guaranteed; ladies’ own materials

made up

– Miss Richards, 6 Palace Road, Norwood, late 59 Palace Square

 

 

 

 

 

Norwood News  Saturday, 5 August 1905

LADY having nice house in Upper Norwood would like to meet with two or three gentlemen requiring comfortable Board Residence; moderate terms

Apply Mrs Grundy, 24 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Advert 30 March 1912 Norwood News

TO LET, 24 Palace Square, six rooms, 12s; also 29 Palace Square; five rooms,

8s 6d.; very low rents – View at once.

 

 

Norwood News  Friday, 17 July 1914

BED SITTING ROOM 5s 6d.; also bedroom, use of dining room, bath, breakfast optional, close to station and Palace – 17 Palace Square, Upper Norwood

 

 

Friday, March 24, 1916

APARTMENTS TO LET

DRAWING ROOM FLOOR, 2 large and 1 small, rent 6s 6d

 – 21 Palace Square, Anerley Hill

 

Norwood News  Friday, 1 August 1930

PENGE AND ANERLEY

The Little Wanderer – on Friday of last week, a boy aged 2 ½ years, was found wandering in the Anerley Road by PC Palmer.  In kindly and encouraging terms, he took the little charge to the Penge Police Station,

where Mrs Harvey, 7 Palace Square, Upper Norwood, his mother, soon afterwards claimed him

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Residents

    Abbott, Edwin (1808 to 1882)

    Lived at 8 Palace Square in 1881 Edwin Abbott (Bn 12 May 1808 D 27 May 1882 18 Palace Square) was an educational writer.  His father Edward Abbott, was an Oilman and Italian Warehouseman, descended from George Abbot (Bn 1562), Archbishop of Canterbury …


    Abercrombie Lockhart, Gordon M.A. (1803 to

    Lived in Palace Square in 1861 and 1871 On both the 1861 and 1871 Census returns, is The Reverend Abercrombie Lockhart Gordon (Bn 1803 Banff, Scotland) (aged 57) and his second wife Ann (M1842, Stirling, Scotland).  In 1861, they had a 25 year old serv …


    Bagshaw John MP (1784 to 1861)

    Lived in Palace Square, Upper Norwood in 1861 Resident in Palace Square on the 1861 Census, was John Bagshaw MP.  He was a Property Developer, Whig and Politician and a Magistrate for Essex (1851 Census). He was born in Warwickshire in 1784, but moved …


    Darker, Captain James (1822 to 1905)

    Lived at 21 Palace Square in 1891 and 1901  Captain James Darker (Bn 1822 D1905 aged 85, 21 Palace Square) had been Captain  Army 10th Foot (H.P. Late) (1881); and Late Royal Warwickshire Regiment; First Battalion 10th Infantry Regiment (1861) and Roya …


    Fairlie, Sir and Lady Percy Arthur Cunningham (Baronet) (1815 to 1881)

    Lived at 15 Palace Square in 1871 Sir Percy Arthur Cunningham Fairlie, (Bn 22 October 1815 D 21 September 1881, aged 66), succeeded his father’s, Sir Charles Cunningham Fairlie’s title in 1859. Sir and Lady Percy Arthur Cunningham Fairlie, were residen …


    Flowerdew, Herbert (1866 to 1917)

    Lived at 33 Palace Square in 1891 Herbert Flowerdew was a Crime Fiction Writer (Bn 1866 Nottingham D 29 May 1917, aged 50).  Between 1897 and 1914, he published fourteen novels, including the popular ‘The Villa Mystery’ in 1912.  His books are of the ‘ …


    L’Estrange Ewen, Herbert (1876 to 1912)

    Lived at 32 Palace Square in 1901 and 1911 On the 1901, Census, is Boarder, Herbert L’Estrange Ewen (aged 24) (Bn 6 July 1876 Offord D’Arcy, Hunts D 1 October 1912, aged 36). A Dealer in Postage Stamps. On the 1911 Census for 32 Palace Square, he was a …


    Nixon, Philip (1828 to 1892)

    Lived in Palace Square in 1871 In Palace Square on the 1871 Census (no house number or name), lived Philip Nixon (Bn 3 March 1828 D1892), his wife Elizabeth (Bn 1828) (both born in Stapleton, Gloucestershire) and their daughter Elizabeth (Bn 1859 Jerse …


    Rogers, Captain Lieutenant Daniel Alexander (1821 to 1881)

    Lived at 7 Palace Square in 1881 Captain Lieutenant Daniel Alexander Rogers (Bn 1821 Colchester D1881 aged 60) of 7th Regt Madras Native Infantry, H.E.I.C.S, son of the Rev T R Rogers M.A.Cambs.  He married Emily James (Bn 1831 Middlesex, London D1902) …


    Rogers, Clement (1836 to )

    Lived at 5 and 15 Palace Square between 1884 and 1887 and 7 Palace Square in 1891 1891, at 7 Palace Square, lived Clement Rogers (Bn 1836 Louth, Lincoln) aged 55 and his wife Jessy (aged 46).  He is also at this address on the 1884 street directory.  H …


    Smith, Edwin Dalton (1800 to 1883)

    Lived at 23 Palace Square in 1881  On the 1881 Census, resident at No 23 Palace Square, was Edwin Daltron Smith (Bn 1800 Chelsea D1883) (Widower).  He was a Miniature Painter, Portrait Painter, Artist, Engraver, Botanical Illustrator and Photographer.  …


    Taylor, John Skardon (1803 to 1863)

    Lived in Palace Square in 1861 John Skardon Taylor (Bn 1803 D 28 January 1863 aged 59) resided in Palace Square with his wife Grace, during the 1861 Census.  He was a Solicitor for Guy’s Hospital and also of the Camberwell House Asylum (where he died). …


    Voy, Thomas (1796 to 1866)

    Lived in Palace Square in 1861 Thomas Voy (Bn 1796 D1866 aged 69/Norwood Cemetery) lived with his wife Elizabeth.  On the 1861 Census his occupation is Pilot Retired.  He resided for many years in Gravesend in the vicinity with other Pilots and Waterme …


    Williams, Thomas (1805 to 1876)

    Lived at 2 Palace Square (1896 Directory) and 5 Palace Square in 1871 and 1875 Thomas Williams (Bn 1805 Plymouth D1876 St James’ Terrace) was a Commander/Lieutenant Royal Navy.  On the 1871 Census, he is Retired (Widow).  He had been married to Juliann …


    Withers, John (1820 to 1895)

    Lived in Palace Square in 1871 Living in Palace Square in 1871 (no house number on Census), was John Withers (Bn 1820 London D1895) with his wife Kate/Drusilla (Bn 1826, Bury, Suffolk).  They married in 1846.  John’s father, Samuel, was a Gent.  John n …


Memories
THE PALACE SQUARE BONFIRE

“Palace Square suffered severe bomb damage during WWII, which left only a few original houses unscathed.  A central area which remained a bomb site for many years, became the designated spot for Bonfire Night every November.  Local children, and even adults, collected unwanted firewood over the weeks leading up to November 5th.  It was a big event.  It wasn’t unknown for the Fire Brigade to turn up due to the intensity and enormity of the blaze.  We also used to do Penny for the Guy, back in the day.”

(© Information from Alan Logan, former resident 1950s-1970s)

“Me, Jimmy, Alan, Graham and a few others used to build a bonfire every year on the bombsite, opposite No 37 Palace Square.  We had to hide a lot of it as the council used to send the Fire Brigade round to pull it down.

Also, every summer holidays, the council used to let us take out the Park Keeper’s shed, games, etc – cricket, football, tennis.  We and the house next door backed onto Cintra Park.  Nearby No 47 Palace Square was built new as the old house had been bombed.”

(© Information from Arthur Roche, former resident 1955-1973)

1959 Newspaper – facebook

The bomb site remained through the 1950s (Belvedere Road in the background).

Due to bomb damage, around the perimeter of Palace Square, only Nos 35, 37, 49 and 51 still survive.  New housing was built to infill the gaps.  The centre section that survived in Palace Square, later ran into disrepair and were demolished c1970s.  A children’s playground is on the site of an original line of housing.

The bomb site remained through the 1950s (Belvedere Road in the background).

Due to bomb damage, around the perimeter of Palace Square, only Nos 35, 37, 49 and 51 still survive.  New housing was built to infill the gaps.  The centre section that survived in Palace Square, later ran into disrepair and were demolished c1970s.  A children’s playground is on the site of an original line of housing.

Palace Square today, facing towards what used to be Palace Road at the far end. New housing now stands on the bomb site, on the right.

1899 map re bomb site area

 

War
5 PALACE SQUARE– 1891 & 1901

WOODS, DOUGLAS CRAWFORD Private No G/12194

In 1891, Douglas Crawford Woods (aged 8 months), lived with his parents, James (a Bank Manager) and Anne Woods (both aged 39), at 5 Palace Square with five sisters and elder brother, Norman (Bn 1880 D1903 5 Palace Square).

By 1911, the family had moved to ‘Venezia’ 78 Belvedere Road (10 rooms).  Douglas’s occupation (aged 20) was a Clerk at a Coal Merchants.  Also living there were three of his sisters, Marguerite Annie (28) a Stenographer for Colonial Brokers, Bessie Hilda (25) a Stenographer for a Gold Mining company and Constance Violet (23) a Stenographer for Export Merchants.  His father’s sister, Hephzibah (68) was also living with them (School Governess).  His younger brother Victor (Bn 25 May 1894 D1964) was a Clerk for a Metal Merchants.  They had one General Domestic Servant, Elsie May Doubtfire (aged 18) from Goole, Yorkshire.  His two sisters, Bertha (Bn 1889), died aged in 1900.  His sister, Gertrude Ada (Bn 1877) was married and living in Clevedon Road, Penge.

On 12 November 1915, aged 25, Douglas joined the Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment 8th Battalion.  Regimental No: Private G/12194.  He was 5’9” and a Ship Broker’s Clerk.  He was Killed in Action 1st September 1916 in Flanders, aged 26.  He is remembered at the Thiepval Memorial, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France.

His brother Pte Victor Crawford Woods Regiment No: 27681 served in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, enlisted in 1915, and survived.  In 1939, he was a Bank Clerk and lived with his wife Myrtle (M1924) at 18 High View Road.

8 PALACE SQUARE – By 1914

PEDDER, FRANK CHARLES Private 61268 (aged 17)

Private Frank Charles Pedder (Bn 1898) joined signed up for WW1 on 7 May 1915, stating on his form that he was 19 years of age, but he had actually just turned only 17 years old.  His occupation was a Clerk, living at 8 Palace Square 5’6”, 8 stone with a 34” chest, fresh complexion and brown hair.  Scar by the corner of his left eye.  He joined the 18th Battalion, Royal Welsh Regiment.  He served for 2 years and 342 days, but was reported as Missing and Killed in Action at Flanders on 13 April 1918.

He was the son of Francis and Elizabeth Pedder 8 Palace Square.  Francis and Elizabeth were married in 1885 at St Luke’s Norwood, while they were living at 15 Hamilton Road.  Francis at that time was a Coachman.

Frank had two brothers, Harry, (Grocer’s Assistant) (Bn 16 October 1888 D1916 aged 27 /Norwood Cemetery), and William (a General Labourer/Painter) (Bn 1886 D1927).  William was 5’4” and also had a scar on his left eyebrow.  He had dark hair ‘getting bald’.  William joined the 7th East Surrey Regiment in October 1914 (Private 5813) aged 29, but was later discharged as being No Longer Physically Fit Under the King’s Regulations (chest wound in 1915).  He was sent home on a warrant with orders to await instructions as to his final discharge.  He was given £1 (one pound) advance and a suit of plain clothes.

In 1891, the family were living at 20 Queens Road Upper Norwood and in 1901, at Romany Road.

In 1911, aged 13 (still at school), Frank was living with his father Francis Cyrus (a House Painter) aged 51 (Bn 1861 D1912), his mother Elizabeth Jane (aged 51) (Bn 1858 D1933) and two brothers, William and Henry at ‘Iona’, The Avenue, Gipsy Hill.

By 1914, they were living at 8 Palace Square, where mother, Elizabeth, was still living in 1922.

Frank Charles was Killed on the Western Front, aged 19 and is buried at Fleurbaix, Departement du Pas-de-Calais, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France.

43 & 59 PALACE SQUARE  

SMITH, WILLIAM JAMES Private 31042

William James Smith war hero – courtesy of Ancestry

Private William James Smith, was born 8 May 1888 in Brighton.  His father, William, died in 1896 (Bn 1836).  He married Gertrude Maud Bournes (Bn 1890 Upper Norwood D1982 aged 91) in 1910.  In 1911, aged 23, married less than a year, they are living at 43 Palace Square (a 3 roomed tenement).  He is a Club Steward.  They also lived at 59 Palace Squareand 85 Anerley Road.   Their son William Ernest (Bn 1911 D1988), later joined the RAF.

During WW1, William James Smith joined 1st Battalion. East Surrey Regiment, Private 31041.  He was Killed in Action on 8 May 1917 and is remembered at Bay 6 Arras Memorial, Departement du Pas-de-Calais, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France.

BOMB DAMAGE

On 10 July 1944, 3:57pm, a V1 Hit Palace Square

This major incident occurred when the V1 fell on Palace Square and caused severe damage in both Palace Square and Belvedere Road.  8 houses demolished in the Square, and 2 in Belvedere Road.  53 severe damage in Belvedere Road.  175 houses and 4 shops slight damage in Palace Square, Belvedere Road, Anerley Grove, Cintra Park, Waldegrave Road and Palace Road.  The area of damage in Belvedere Road can still be seen as the line of Victorian housing is interrupted by a small recreation ground/open space, now known as Palace Square Open Space which opened as a recreation ground in 1951.  Only a few original houses in Palace Square survive to this day.

The recreation ground was created when a V1 destroyed part of Belvedere Road and Palace Square, and other neighbouring roads on 10 July 1944

34 PALACE SQUARE – 1901

ADAM, ARTHUR CYRIL Private 760485/Sergeant Instructor

Arthur Cyril Adams (Bn 1877 Putney), lived with his mother Louisa (aged 49 Bn 1852 D1926) (a Widower in 1896) at 34 Palace Square, in 1901.  His father Arthur, had been an Insurance Underwriter.

By 1911, he was an Insurance Clerk, working for North British and Mercantile Insurance Company.

Arthur enlisted in the 28th (County of London) Battalion (Artists Rifles), Regiment No: 760485 (Sergeant INSTR) / 760485 Private).  Formerly 2340, City of London Yeomanry.  He was a Sergeant Instructor in HM Army.  He was Killed in Action at the Battle of Corbie (Somme), serving as a Company Sergeant Major Instructor on 28 March 1918, aged 41.  He is remembered on the Arras Memorial, Pas de Calais, France.

35 PALACE SQUARE – 1901

BARNETT, WILLIAM AUGUSTUS

Born 2 February 1898.  In 1901, William Augustus Barnett was aged 3, living with his parents Charles Augustus (a Skating Rink Superintendent) and Amelia (both aged 26) at 35 Palace Square.  In 1898, his father Charles had been a Wine Merchant.  He joined the Royal Flying Corps, 21st Sqdn (Rank 2nd Lieutenant) (year, or age stated not known).  He Died of Wounds on 15 November 1917, aged 19 and is buried in Duhallow ADS Cemetery, West Vlaanderen, Ypres, Arrondissement-leper, Belgium.

William Augustus Barnett war hero